I noticed that my last post is dated September 10th. To say I had a busy September would be a gross understatement. I traveled three out of four weeks, first to lead a cohort, deliver workshops and present a keynote in Shanghai at Learning 2.011. The following week, I was back to Shanghai for Category 2 Language A MYP training, and finally off to Bukit Lawang for a school trip in which I took 45 kids into the Sumatran jungle to see, amongst other thing, semi-wild Orangutans in their natural habitat.
Upon my return, I organized and participated in our school’s, mini-conference called Learning 2.011.1. A successful event in which 65 members of staff voluntarily came in on a Friday between 4-6pm to learn about technology. Saturday after that, I received some training on how to present an IB workshop for a conference coming up in Jakarta. Oh, yeah, I have been having a blast teaching my classes. I could go on and on, but I am sure you are busy too and do not want to waste your time reading about how busy I am. I wanted to write about a Facebook status a friend of mine posted a few days ago and its connection to my recent thoughts upon returning from Sumatra.
Take a look:
I had planned to go to Sumatra completely disconnected. After my hyper-connected month of September, I needed a break to detangle the wires both literally and figuratively. I agree with Kenny in saying that, “ We have a need for mental, social, physical, spiritual, and emotional fulfillment.” I will comment later on how many of those needs my laptop fulfills, but for now I will agree that we need time away. We need time in the mud. We need time connected to the earth and the sky.
Unfortunately, (careful what you wish for) blog fever is strong at our school, and our AP asked that I create a Week Without Walls blog to help document each of our trips. I was against the live blogging of these trips, but relented and said that I would add limited content while I was away and decompressing. The blog has actually been a great organic place to document the trips. We are now working on a syndication system that will agrregate all the reflective blog posts written by staff and students. We hope it will act as a great resource of personal testimonials and photos for students going on trips next year.
I guess the point I am trying to make is why does it have to be so black and white? Why do we always create these false dichotomies between technology and the real world? Why do techies insist that things must be tech all the time, while luddites wax-poetic about features of an analogue past that is quickly fading? We can have natural experiences. We can use technology to help connect us to others who share our love of life. I argue that we can have the best of both worlds. I remember the warm feeling of absolute mental, social, physical, spiritual, and emotional fulfillment, as I sat on the edge of a river; the sun was setting as I watched a community of children come to life. I had many such experiences during my time in the jungle; the value of these experiences is incalculable. There is no doubt that we need to engage the world from out behind the screen.
As an adult, I am able to wrestle with my need to experience reality and my need to document and record it. It is a struggle no doubt, but I enjoy the challenge of finding a balance to my desires and needs. Kenny asks if we need more tech in schools and if that is what students need.
I say that we need to help students understand how to find that balance. We need to guide them in learning how to use tech to feel comfortable in their own skins and how to express what they find. Demonizing or glorifying technology will not help our students. We must help them use it to meet their needs. So often these digital natives use tech only to alleviate boredom, and to be fair many of the students I work with have very little experience in an non-urban, disconnected environment. While I agree with Kenny, that perhaps more tech is not the answer, I would argue that we need to expose kids to nature and see how they choose to use tech to document experience. Take’em to the woods. Get’em dirty. Sing around fires. Then come home and use tech to create, connect, and communicate experiences to others. Technology is not a substitute for reality it is a conduit to it.
I think it is shortsighted to forcibly separate the tangible and the virtual. You are right Kenny! Technology will not substitute our biological needs, but I disagree that it cannot help us connected to social groups. Online relationship are as valid as “real” ones- for me often times they are more rewarding.
The people I have met online help complete me. They are becoming my closets friends. You can read more here, and I suggest you watch the presentation about the power of online communities, but before you begin to say that we need face-to-face interactions as well, let me stop you. Yes! Of course we do. Again it is about the balance.
I understand your frustration Kenny. After all, you and I have spent lots of quality time in the jungle, fishing, and playing music together. We get the value of the organic. It may appear that schools are chasing a technological dream in hopes that it will make them more relevant, but we know that is not the case. More computers and an emphasis on technology will not make a better school.
We need teachers, guides, and mentors dedicated to understanding what it means to be human being in the 21st century. We need to be open to exploring ideas and technologies that make us uncomfortable and challenge our very humanity. We need to help our students gain a diverse range of experiences, equip them with the skills and wisdom to know how to find a balance. There is value in mud, in the sun, in the clouds, but there is also value in the “cloud,” online communities, and the power of connectivity afforded us by technology.
I didn’t need technology to appreciate these moments, but the tech is helping me share them with you and others.
What do you guys think? How do you find a balance in your lives? How do approach the people who force you to choose between nature and technology?
Hi Jabiz. While I agree that “real world vs technology” is a false dichotomy, I’m not sure that I can whole heartedly embrace the idea of technology being a conduit to reality. I remember reading a book by Neil Postman called “Amusing Ourselves to Death” where he argued that a particular medium can only sustain a particular level of ideas. He wrote this a number of years ago and it was in particular reference to television and the dumbing down of political discourse. The internet, having an interactive capability, is a completely different medium so his argument doesn’t directly apply. But, the internet and everything that goes with it is very entertaining and absorbing and may be interfering with our (and and our students) inability to concentrate in a sustained manner and to engage with the real world. Like television, the internet bombards us sensually and may interfere with our ability to perceive everyday, non-MTV reality. Its hard for us to stop and look. I think the answer is not to limit the access to technology, we couldn’t anyway, but to build more outdoor education into our curriculum.
Absolutely, man – and many thanks for sharing the pics!
I think it’s important to save time to engage completely in an unmediated experience – in nature, sure, but even indoors, with one another. This year on our Talons trips we’ve even delegated student & teacher photographers (adding to a longtime ban on cellphones, iPods, etc), so that everyone can be ‘in the moment’ for the duration of the trip. This type of engagement, and connection to one’s experience become all the more powerful artifacts created as individual memories and learning which can then be shared via our technological gadgets.
That we are able to share our realities (I mean, really: considering we’ve never ‘met,’ and we are each tugging on this thread is only the more inspiration to continue pulling in my (geographical) isolation) is a magical thing to comprehend, and perhaps not even anything lesser than the physical outdoors, and education in mother nature. Each is becoming an essential connective skill (and for many, a passion) in 21st century life, each a way of living that we ‘teach’ best by modeling it ourselves, I think. The depths of human frivolity, distraction and (what Michael Wesch calls) “hate as a public performance” can be found in abundance across the internet, and at the hands of our phones and laptops, but also the opposite: love, connections, and the other signposts of a community I am proud to be navigating alongside you, and others.
I think we’re onto something not only because I think the skills we’re exploring with our students might be necessary in the digital economies of the 21st century, but also because they may be required to exert a hand in their own political future by participating in a General Assembly, as protesters across America are now doing in the #Occupy demonstrations. We ignore either of them at our own (and our students’) peril.
Hey,
EXCELLENT post… and for me the essential part is.. BALANCE… I love my laptop… and I love Facebook… I dont think I said it cannot connect us to social groups.. if I did, I stand corrected…
I use FB all the time.. for many reasons..and one reason is to stay connected to people and friends I know around the world AND to connect to other people I have never met with common interests… and I think it’s a good thing…
But if that WAS ALL I had.. and no friends I could see in person, in real life, in real time, face to face to read their body language, feel their humanity and get a complete picture of them (which I think you can only do face to face).. then it would be a sad state of affairs… and I do believe this exists in some folks that I have seen that lack social skills because they interact mostly online…
What worries me .. is that I have yet to hear the word BALANCE… in any staff meeting.. any decision making process.. and any of the protocols to implement a 1 to 1 laptop model.. no one has ever said BALANCE.. WISE USE.. BEST PRACTICE… there is a time and a place when using a laptop (or any other technology) is NOT appropriate…
But I have yet to hear anyone openly engage in that conversation or give it merit… in fact, when I raise the issue I am either ignored, shut down or given the feeling that ‘I am not on the team’ because everyone else is buying into it.. so why shouldnt I?
Many of us have bought wholesale into tech without ever stopping to ask why, to what benefit and what should be the limits.. (I had a parent talk to me about this the other day.. and she literally got closer to me and whispered her worries about too much technology as if she were being watched and saying something horrendous!)
And here is the problem… you and I grew up outdoors… we played.. we were creative, made up games and invented rules and fun… we learned to compromise with our peers and learned social rules on the playground, in the woods and in the fields… all of this happened naturally, without a lesson plan and without adults guiding us.. because there was no adult around.. we were on our own with a band of friends in our neighborhood.. and there is value in that..
So now.. we know the BALANCE.. we experienced it.. we know when to say when..
These kids.. don’t have that experience.. I have real data and experience with this first hand…
When I give students free time.. to play in the woods on a field trip.. they are lost and confused, they dont know how to ‘create’ their fun because they are used to structure and pre-packaged fun from digital sources… they ask permission to sit on the ground.. they are afraid to step in a creek… and in one EXTREME example.. a highly intelligent IB student asked ‘when we get on the raft in this stream, which direction should we go’… not knowing or ever having experienced a river.. she didn’t know about the direction of river flow and downstream!
In another extreme example… one student asked ‘what are all those lights in the sky?’ never have experienced a night sky full of stars…
And finally, every year I survey my students about their habits and time use… and its very sad to say that the average middle school student spends less than 5 hours a MONTH outdoors playing in a natural environment…
And why I worry is this… if you do not have direct experience of nature and an emotional attachment with a place then you are less likely to care about it and take action to conserve it… and that CANNOT happen through technology… it just cant… it has to be experienced with all senses and usually should happen with loved ones or friends on a regular basis…
So how can these students even begin to know BALANCE.. if they have never been exposed to BALANCE? They are UNBALANCED… in my opinion…
So.. until I hear people engage in a dialogue about BALANCE…. and letting these kids have a bit of WILDNESS in their childhood… I see them as over-teched.. disconnected from Nature and from their own true nature..
And for the record.. I LOVE my laptop.. I LOVE FB… I LOVE iTunes and YouTube.. but I also LOVE when I leave them behind.. unplug them and go outside and get away!
Thanks!
-PV
Great points. All of them. Thanks Kenny. By the way, you always have a place here on this blog:
But I have yet to hear anyone openly engage in that conversation or give it merit… in fact, when I raise the issue I am either ignored, shut down or given the feeling that ‘I am not on the team’ because everyone else is buying into it.. so why shouldnt I?
Share this conversation with your IT staff and see what they think? We write and share online to help connect ideas and come to consensus.
Also.. FYI… I keep waiting for someone to call BS on me.. and mention that I am spreading my message of more nature – less tech using my laptop on FB.. thats tech! HAHA!
That irony has not escaped me… and the fact that I am using it.. and I am plugged in.. and using tech is a statement in itself…
BUT.. as you say.. I am a BIG FAN OF BALANCE!
Having said that.. we should indeed get together soon and do something!
I am in Bali at the moment taking a Wilderness First Responder class… I have resigned from my job and will be leading outdoor enviro stuff in SE Asia full time!
And been sleeping in an open air bale in the middle of a rice field all week.. what a GREAT experience to wake up and see the sunrise over the rice field! WHOO HOO!
I think you will dig it!
Have a super groovy day! And thanks for the dialogue and thought provoking blog post..
-PV
I will try and promote your workshop in January at our school. Will try to make it, but can’t make promises. Would love to see you soon. Still think about that trip to the lake in Malaysia.
Ah, Jabiz you know you’re going to draw me in when you kvetch about something being all or nothing, black or white, etc. 🙂 I am soooooooooooooooo comfortable in the grays! It’s my favorite place to be! And I suspect a big part of our job is to help students find their most comfortable shades of gray, too. It truly is about balance. But I’d even go a step farther and say that you can’t find that balance, your personal shade of gray, until you’re willing to get quiet and listen to yourself. It’s all about being in tune, focusing on self-awareness and knowing when you need more or less of something. It’s very easy to get wrapped up in all things tech and watch 4 hours pass with nary a break — particularly if you’re engaged and enjoy it. It’s similarly very easy to get wrapped up in all things nature and spend 4 hours navel-gazing under a tree, contemplating life’s big questions and how the blades of grass grow so uniformly. Both of these are good things. Somewhere, we need self-regulation. We need a piece of our brain that says, “hey, hang on a second. How are you feeling about all of this? What do you need? What is being fulfilled and what is not?” And then we need to listen to that piece of our brain and follow up on what it’s asking us.
Thanks again for the provocative post. You’re speakin’ my language. Here’s to the gray spaces in the world. Or, as Buddha once said, “the middle way.” 🙂
I agree.. I call it walking on shifting sand.. the grey areas you refer to…
Many people wanna stand on a rock.. but I kinda like the sand to shift..
Know what I mean?
-Kenny
Jabiz,
There is no reason to choose between two polar opposites, because two polar opposites don’t exist; especially in this situation. Don’t we take photos of nature? Don’t we use these photos to make movies and share with others? I understand the need to unplug sometimes and often do unplug myself, but I see no need to assume that technology and nature cannot coexist peacefully. In fact, when we share our experiences in nature with others, do we not actually enhance that experience? I’m confused by people who want to see the world in binary logic; I’m a tech geek and I don’t see the world that way. Our future is going to be about convergence and dealing with it. Why not enjoy the convergence of technology and nature?
Tim
I don’t think the issue is about unplugging or not, nor about sharing our experiences of nature or whatever using technology, its about whether or not technology actually alters our experience of the world. We don’t think about Spring in the same way as people who live in a society without refrigeration and supermarkets. The printing press had a dramatic effect on oral culture. Television and the proliferation of images arguably has altered the way that we think and experience the world. Less people, for example, have the stamina to sit through two or three hours of a political speech or a long and wordy play. Technology changes culture, not always in predictable ways. We gain with technology but we also lose. How many people could go into the Canadian wilderness to prospect for gold without their gortex jackets and gps units. Skills get lost. The constant desire for stimulation reduces our ability to experience.
Having said all this, I recall spending some time in New York about 15 years ago. I was staying with a kindergarten teacher who was working with urban kids. She had to teach them how to play with water and sand. The problem for those kids wasn’t stemming from technology, it derived from a lack of access to a non-urban environment.
I think it does come back to balance. Lets embrace the power of the tools but keep an eye towards what it might be costing us. We have bodies, we need to move. We need to experience the natural world and we need to experience proximity with other people – other people who are giving us the gift of their attention without an expectant eye wandering to their iPhone every 5 seconds.
You said, “The constant desire for stimulation reduces our ability to experience. ”
Is that the nature of reality? Isn’t that how our brains are wired to be constantly desire stimulation? Yes the internet, media and technology have put us into hyper-drive, but our brains are pre-wired for it. Monks have been trying for years to put the hype-brain on hold for years. They could barely do it before the tech. What I am trying to say is that, we should not blame tech for what are brains do naturally.
Having said that, I agree that we need to find ways to quiet our brains, mediate, spend time alone and in our brains and in nature, but this is a necessity with or with the tech.
We are learning how to experience the digital age as we live it. This is scary, but no different than any other age. We experiment. We explore. We discuss. We learn. But we do not fear or discount what is new and foreign.
You said, “Lets embrace the power of the tools but keep an eye towards what it might be costing us. We have bodies, we need to move. We need to experience the natural world and we need to experience proximity with other people.” I totally agree
But let us also embrace the power of connected learning and new digital communities.
Wow. Guys. I am blown away by comments. Give me a few days to process and I will get back to you. Wonderful to see such depth in these comments. Thanks for contributing. I will be back soon. I promise.
I think your quotes excerpted above from a person ranting against technology and virtual networks are self-defeating enough not to require any further discussion.
If nature and the atmospheric elements are enough for this person to fulfill all of his needs, why didn’t he go outside and yell those messages to the trees?
But here we are looking at words that he typed into a computer. He clearly needed to use facebook to share those thoughts. And had no problem using facebook to share those thoughts. And I’m sure he has many “friends” on facebook who are not trees or atmospheric elements.
The person quoted above is therefore an obvious hypocrite and hysterical blowhard who shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Case closed.
Come on Alex! What kind of digital citizenship is that? Kenny is actually a very thoughtful person and he has shown that by his comments above. I do feel that we (tech enthusiast) often shut people down who are not as techie as us, and that is what I feel he was addressing.
The fact that we focus so much on tech and not as much on outdoor ed is what he was saying. Reading his comments above, clarifies that point I think.
Anyway, I will be back soon to leave a more thought out response, but let’s try to keep things civil in the comments. We are all friends here.
Sorry to be harsh, and I meant to attack the written words more than the people behind them, but I’m ready to defend my statements above.
Analogy time: Maybe I like going barefoot. Maybe it reminds me of my childhood.
Maybe I love to feel the fresh air on my feet. Maybe I have a theory about toenail oxidation promoting cerebral stimulation. Maybe I have done my doctoral dissertation on the spiritual benefits of heel aeration.
Maybe I feel strongly that children who wear shoes are not fully experiencing childhood.
Maybe I feel that shoes are robbing our children of their soles.
If I felt that way, and then I put on shoes, walked into a shoe store, and started to advertise my own brand of shoes which had a little message stamped on the side that said “SHOES ARE EVIL!”, I would expect criticism. You can’t travel the world wearing shoes while selling shoes that make people feel guilty about wearing shoes. That’s silly. Right?
Sigh. I lost my temper a bit in those previous comments. At the risk of digging myself in even deeper I’ll try to explain what made me angry.
The thought behind all my comments was: A bow and arrow is technology. A sharpened stick is technology. A loincloth is technology. A campfire is technology. A smear of organic material on a cave ceiling is technology.
The idea that educated people in 2011 from around the world think they can casually say things like “I don’t like technology”… well, I kind of start to see red. What you’re really saying is, “I have decided that I, personally, should be in charge of where humanity draws the line in terms of millions of years of technological progress. Eyeglasses, airplanes, clothing, fire, books, language, flashlights, Goretex, vaccinations, facebook, those are all OK, but anything else is TOO MUCH! Everything up until now was OK, but technology should stop… HERE.” The absurdity of that viewpoint gets my dander up. And yet it’s a very, very common viewpoint. That’s all I’m raging against, really. The fact that so many people think they get to personally draw the line for all of human civilization, and mark the distinction where things were good in the past, but now they aren’t, and lecture us about it.
“The fact that so many people think they get to personally draw the line for all of human civilization, and mark the distinction where things were good in the past, but now they aren’t, and lecture us about it.”
Yes!
I am almost certain.. in fact, I m 100% sure that if Alex and I had a conversation face to face.. or sat down over a coffee or a beer… that we would find common ground… and we would have a reasonable chat… and that is exactly what I mean when I say there is not a real and true human connection via technology…. those comments demonstrate my point very poignantly..
In person.. I dont call people names.. and in person I look into their eyes and read their body language… and in person I respond to a human .. not to words on a digital screen…and to a person that I know and feel is fundamentally the same as me… but via technology….. hmmm..
I am not trying to be right or wrong here… and I do believe I stated many times I am a fan of technology… and I also pointed out the irony that I was using Facebook and technology as a tool to express my opinion.. and that was a statement in itself that must at least allude to the fact that I am indeed a fan of technology…but I am a bigger fan of BALANCE..
I am trying to point out that I think, and feel and have witnessed that we have lost the balance in many cases… and the children we are teaching are growing up unbalanced because they don’t have the opportunity to experience Nature and thus, their own inner nature by being in contact with things outside.. tangible things that are real and not just images on a screen…
In essence, many of them are De-Natured…
There are some things that can only be done, thought, felt and experienced in solitude in Nature and natural environments… or even with a group of family and friends in Nature… and I do believe every person should have the opportunity to experience that.. but if our students don’t even know it exists because they have very rarely or never experienced it.. then how can they even begin to know what it is , value it or hold it sacred?
i.e. as I said, my students spend less than 5 hours a month outdoors in a natural environment (mostly, as someone pointed out earlier.. because they lack access to it).. their typical day is spent at school, on a manicured field or astroturf, a constructed ‘safe’ playground and then back to a condo etc.. their weekends are spent inside malls..
I know this because I have collected data on their time use and daily habits… to answer my question ‘how do they spend their free time?’ And I asked this question because I noticed that every single student I asked would also respond that they think protecting the environment is important… and noticed that they LOVED playing outdoors when given an opportunity… but I also wondered how much they really knew about the environment and Nature from direct experience…
The fact that this is a discussion with such passionate response is a great indicator to me that something is indeed in need of discussion..
So I suppose.. for me.. the question is how do we address it? How do we do both with balance.. how do we address the biological need for kids (and adults!) to be outside immersed in Nature and all the benefits derived from that AND embrace technology and all the benefits from that?
What is wise use? What are best practices? When is it best to use a ruler and paper and not Excel? When should you unplug and get outside?
And also.. when should you plug in and network with the world? And get some cool things and work done with tech? And do things we could never have done even 5 or 10 years ago that are pretty amazing!
I suspect there is not a single answer… or even an answer that fits everyone.. but the discussion is valuable and I have not heard anyone at any schools I have been to openly acknowledge it or address it.. not yet at least…
-PV
Kenny – I am really sorry about the way that first comment came out. What I wanted to say was something more along the lines of “I think teachers who use laptops to say that students shouldn’t have laptops are being hypocritical” – not to personally call you insulting names. But I was annoyed and writing quickly, and it came out the exact opposite. I apologize.
To respond to some of your points –
-I think more technology in the schools, and lots of it, is the only way that you are going to ever come close to your dream of getting students out in nature more. In a matter of years – or even months – I think the convergence of geolocation, handhelds, augmented reality displays and whatever else will make it silly to contain students in a classroom.
If you want to make sure students get out there in Nature, you need to get on a soapbox for more laptops, and plenty of them, ASAP. You ask “when should you unplug and go outside?”, but that’s not a question anybody needs to ask any more. Grab your laptop AND go outside.
-The primal human experience we have when in solitude in nature is meaningless (especially from an education point of view) unless some form of storytelling or recording of the events or the person’s thoughts on experiencing them. And that requires technology.
Every pond in America has probably had dozens of Thoreaus pondering deep thoughts near them over the years, but we’ll never know, because Thoreau was the only one who took a notebook and pencil to make his reflections. Personal reflection, and public sharing, on those “mountaintop” moments requires storytelling and technology, or else you’re just a solitary animal standing on a mountaintop, thoughts locked inside you.
So again, I think the kind of experiences you want students to have _absolutely_ depend on technology use, and plenty of it. Whether or not today’s Thoreaus use a quill pen or an iPhone is to my mind not as important as recognizing that the tool to record the nature experience is, in this case, as important as the nature experience itself.
At least for a teacher, I think in some ways if a tree falls in the forest and the student who hears it doesn’t eventually record his or her thoughts on it using some sort of technology, it didn’t make a sound. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the discussion – and I guess that’s the last point I’d make… you point out that I probably wouldn’t have insulted you if we were talking face-to-face. True, but I don’t think we’d have this discussion face-to-face, in a million years. Technology, and being plugged into it, allows for a lot of forms of communication that maybe aren’t as satisfying in some ways to some people as “reality”, but which also allow far more sharing of ideas than “reality” ever did. That’s got to be worth something, and I think students and teachers should both take advantage of those new ways of learning and sharing.
I think if you want to get students out into Nature, getting on a soapbox and asking for more technology is a fairly circuitous route that is not guaranteed to produce that outcome. Getting on a soapbox and extolling the value of outdoor education is probably a better idea. In terms of technology, I would recommend getting the stuff that enables a safe trip. That doesn’t include a laptop.
By the way, if a tree falls in the forest and a student hears it, then the student has heard a tree fall in the forest whether or not they post it on facebook. Its still possible to have private and meaningful experiences, surely?
Reading this discussion I was a little surprised that it degenerated the way that it did. I suppose I shouldn’t have been surprised, as I’ve seen people get into flame wars over what sprockets they buy for their mountain bikes.
Geoffrey –
Yes, the steep decline into savagery was entirely my fault and I regret it. I read the snippets from Facebook at the top of the post – about how tech couldn’t lead to any meaningful form of fulfillment – and lost my temper. Of course laptops can be instrumental in mental, social, etc. etc. fulfillment! Just the same way books, or paintbrushes, or airplanes have helped millions of people on their way to fulfillment. They’re tools. We use them to help us. The idea that educators might presume to deny the usefulness of whole categories of tools for their students – while in the act of benefiting from those very tools themselves – got me upset.
(But I was stupid to flip out like that. I’m not very good at staying civil in online debates. If only I’d had a class where I’d gotten to develop those skills in school, instead of having to cobble them together on my own!)
As for my idea that advocating for more technology will be the route to more nature trips – just a quick example: I’m planning a project now that will involve students walking around the neighborhood of the school, taking pictures, and making a map. Without handheld cameras and mapmaking tools this project would not exist. Now it does. Because I have the tools to do it. The fact that all of my students have cameras in their phones has directly led to them getting more time outside of the classroom during that particular unit. That’s not too circuitous a chain of events to follow.
As for the tree falling allegory – of course it’s still possible to have private and meaningful experiences that are never shared with another soul. I have them in the bathroom all the time. I just meant that as a teacher it’s impossible for me to have as one of my major pedagogical goals the orchestration of those experiences for my students.
That would be like an English teacher saying: “Here’s Moby-Dick. Read it, and think about it in your head when you’re done. Tell no one. This ends our class for the year.”
If there’s absolutely no record of something happening to a student, then for the teacher it pretty much didn’t happen, right? There MUST be some storytelling, recording and reflection. That’s what I was going for with the falling tree thing.
Cheers Alex. I take your point about the link from technology to the outdoors. I also take your point about story telling in the education context. And thanks for not sharing any details about your meaningful bathroom experiences. Seriously though, I’m interested in the the way we might be diminished by technology. I’m not advocating not using it, as if we even had a choice. Since this thread started I’ve had another look at Postman’s ideas about technology always involving some kind of trade off. He is quite convincing in regard to television, but does not really offer much argument (that I’ve found) in terms of networking and communication technologies. I think he died in 2003, so I’ll probably need to look elsewhere.
Anyway, I’m off to Bali tonight and I’ll probably be disconnected from the digital world for a week. No, hang on, I’m taking my camera. If I get a shot of a falling tree I’ll post it. 🙂
-The primal human experience we have when in solitude in nature is meaningless (especially from an education point of view) unless some form of storytelling or recording of the events or the person’s thoughts on experiencing them. And that requires technology.
Bold statement…I thought about this a lot on my trip and will hopefully write another post about it soon. Not sure I completely agree, but I know there is truth to what you are saying. Reality versus documented and shared reality. Good stuff.
This has been fascinating for me to watch, and since I agree with much of what everyone is saying I do not have much to add. It has been like watching tennis match. For me it is strange because I have spent time in the woods with Kenny and Geoff and I have “geeked” out with Alex, so I am in the unique position of “knowing” you all pretty well.
I do not feel this conversation has degenerated. As moderator, I have tried to keep it civil and I think, for the most part, people have kept their emotions in check. But it is an important talk to have, and one that is often forgotten or ignored in schools’ rush to be “Hi-Tech.”
If we want to create buy-in we have to listen to people who disagree with us and offer rational explanations for our ideas. That is where the Grey comes in, the balance.
I hope you don’t think me wishy-washy, but you all have great points. You are all right. We do not have to choose:
We can spend time in the woods. Alone. That is good.
We can spend time in the woods and create art using technology to share with others.
We can spend time in the woods and create art using words and pencils.
We can spend time in our machines. Alone. That is good…..
You get the idea.
The point is that we simply need to offer as many different experiences to students as we can. Kenny is right, most kids I deal with spend very little time alone, unstructured time outside. That is why I feel Week-without-walls and outdoor ed are so important. I would recommend several trips a year with extended time in each. Not just a one off. It is just as important to promote and push for Outdoor Ed programs as it is to fight for 1:1
There was so much I wanted to reply to, but I will let it go for now. To go back to your anaolgy Alex about the shoes:
I love being barefoot. I love have proper shoes when I need them. When I go to Thailand I rarely wear shoes. When I walk the streets of Jakarta I wear them all the time. I know the benefits and freedoms of shoes and being barefoot. I have take my shoes off and observed the feeling. I have different shoes for different occasions.
Most of our students wear shoes out of fear and have never tried to walk without them. All we are saying is that sometimes it is a good idea to take your shoes off and see what you feel….
As for trees falling and the need to document reality or experience it in a Zen-like purity, I have a lot to say. It is a struggle for me, but that could wait for a new post. Thank you all for participating in the conversation. I hope it has shifted you thinking and that you share it with others. Feel free to carry on!
I like your version of the shoes metaphor. I was just kind of rambling about the shoes, but you really restated the whole debate using them in a relevant way. Sincerely, The Degenerator
Hi all..
I am amazed at this thread.. and obviously it has touched upon something that we feel pretty passionate about…
I am also amazed at this process.. and how I think it proves my point that technology cannot substitute for human interaction.
Here is a quote from Jabiz “I think it is shortsighted to forcibly separate the tangible and the virtual. You are right Kenny! Technology will not substitute our biological needs, but I disagree that it cannot help us connected to social groups. Online relationship are as valid as “real” ones- for me often times they are more rewarding.”
and here is the quote from my FB he is referring to I believe ” Technology can never substitute or replace our biological needs for basic necessities like clean air, clean water, healthy food… and a sense of belonging to a tangible (not virtual) social group….”
If you read those quotes.. I don’t think I ever said that online relationships are not valid.. I said they can never substitute for our biological need for a sense of belonging to a real social group… in fact, I do think online relationships are valid… I just don’t they are a substitute for face to face human interaction.. and I don’t think online relationships fulfill our biological needs to interact in real time with real people…
I do indeed have many online relationships.. with some people I have yet to meet… and I see the value in that.. and I will continue to nurture those.. but given a choice.. I would MUCH prefer to go sit with someone downtown and have a coffee… smoke a shisha.. or better yet.. go for a hike to a waterfall and take a nalgene full of wine!
The danger is this… our students spend WAY too much time in the digital world and not enough time in the natural world.. I have the data to support that.. and I simply do not think its healthy.. and I dont think the digital world can ever substitute for or fulfill our need for a biological world… and I am pretty certain it never will… so they need to get unplugged..
Once again.. to criticize the process… and not the individual… so please read it as such.. when Alex responded initially I believe it was technology that prompted that response.. and facilitated that reaction…
In the digital world we react and respond quickly.. often times without taking time to think.. and we are responding to sterile words on a screen…
But in person.. we can see body language.. we can read other signs.. and we interact with a human being.. not a sterile screen.. and there are layers upon layers of communication that we interpret, mostly unconsciously and that communication is real, its valid and its needed to fully comprehend any situation (and a digital interaction cannot provide that fully) .. AND most importantly.. we ask questions to further our understanding… we listen and we empathize with the human we are interacting with…
As I said.. in person..we don’t behave the same way as we do in the digital world.. because there is a human connection…
In essence.. one of the big dangers of technology.. is we read something.. assume we now something about it and react to that assumption.. which very often is not reality.. we do it all the time..
In my case.. people read what i wrote.. and reacted to it.. without digging deeper.. without taking time to fully understand… and this is key.. without noticing that some of my statements are followed by ‘?’.. which implies I am questioning.. and wanting to discuss the points… and asking myself and others about these things.. and it also implies that my thoughts are not rigid… that I am open to answers.. they are not statements. they are questions…
We do this all the time.. we interpret things on a screen based on our own past experiences.. and read things into the words that are not always there based on that experience…
I think it’s AMAZING how much people read into what I wrote.. and responded to something thats not even in my posts… they were responding to their ideas about my posts.. but not to what I wrote…
As for the shoe analogy.. I never said technology is evil.. so that analogy does not work at all…
As for Alex and I never discussing these things in person…. and technology allowed us to do that.. well, if you were to spend any time with me at all.. you would pretty quickly realize that we would indeed talk about it.. especially in the right context and setting.. it would most certainly happen… I have these conversations often..
For more tech getting kids outside.. I will write about this in detail later… but its simply does not work that way.. a direct connection with Nature is not facilitated by technology… in fact, technology is a layer of separation from a persons direct experience of nature.. getting gets outside is facilitated by simply giving students more time outdoors… and giving them both time in nature and access to natural areas.. there is no tech involved in that… you dont need more GPS units or laptops to get kids to go outside.. you need more time unplugged and more access to natural areas to get kids to go outside…
The reason is this: connection to nature is not a cognitive pursuit… it is in the affective domain of learning.. it’s based on emotions felt when being outdoors… if there is an academic pursuit then it comes later but initially what prompts that is an emotional response to being outside and all the experiences and feelings associated with that… not vice versa.. people dont think about Nature and then care enough to want to experience it and protect it.. people become attached to nature first through direct experience and the feelings associated with that and THEN want to learn more about it and learn how to protect it…
So for now.. I would really encourage everyone to re-read my initial posts.. and then answer the real questions that I put there.. and read the statement I made about technology not being able to substitute our biological needs..
Then, see what you think…
-Kenny
What a great discussion! We have an incredible responsibility as teachers to help students work between the two ‘worlds’ and find value in both. My students (high school) tend to struggle with seeing the academic value in the digital world and tend to ‘demonize’ technology when is comes to their studies. Sure they will Google for answers but the second something goes wrong with a project or social media they blame the system. But, if we can guide and help them understand it is a part of their communication and often a ‘conduit’ as was mentioned they will learn to value the medium as one of their voices or even advocates not just in the social realm but the academic as well.
As educators we just cannot afford to separate these two ‘worlds’ any longer. Just as we need time away from it (as do the students) we also need to time with it to grow, understand, learn, and appreciate….
Connections.
I’ve always thought it was about ‘relationship’, but I think a better word, might be ‘connections’. Whether connecting to people, places, or events, it is the uniqueness of a given time or place that most strongly engraves memory. You might not remember what you had for dinner last Tuesday, but you might specifically recall a meal at a particular restaurant, or family event.
The ‘extra’ sensory conditions have the impact of making things more meaningful and memorable. It’s just one of many reasons to take the time to do your learning in constantly changing environments. When you sprinkle in novel experiences in those places, with a sampling of new voices, the effect of the experience is compounded.
This context helps me begin to understand why my recent trips to South River, and Shanghai continue to have a lasting impact…
I guess one big question that ties technology into the equation might be “What role does technology play in deepening the connections among individuals, irrespective of time and place?”
(I’m sure you’re sleeping as mid-day approaches in the western hemisphere… and that word, hemisphere, has me back where I began, thinking about connections in our memory banks.)
Hi,
My name is Cassie Giles I am a student in EDM310 @ The University of South Alabama in Mobile, AL. USA. I was assigned to read and comment on your blog this week. I am glad to have had the opportunity to read your blog. Many of your thoughts I can totally agree with. Before starting this class I was totally oblivious to the world of technology. I searched the web a little, did a few things in microsoft office , and had a face book page and I thought I was pretty technologically engaged. I was so far from it!! I am thankful that I have had this experience to see what this world has to offer for me and for my future students. I feel like with technology the possibilities are endless. There is so much to explore and gives students such an awesome opportunity to communicate with people all over the world in just a click of the mouse. But in my personal opinion nothing is better than experiencing life hands on. I agree that we need to connect with nature sometimes. I can look at a picture of a beautiful sunset, even look at an actual sunset via skype or something, but nothing replaces sitting in nature and actually experiencing that first hand. Same scenario with other things in nature like the waves of the ocean I could watch this on the web but what could replace smelling the salty sea air ,feeling the sand between your toes, and listening to the crashing of the waves.Technology cant give that to me no matter how virtual their reality becomes it will not replace the real thing. I think what you are doing in the week without walls is such a great learning experience. I don’t think we should ever be forced to choose between technology or nature. If I was forced I would pick nature. It was here first and will be here in the end. I believe there is balance in everything. I thank God for all the advancements our world has and all the things he has given us the ability and power to accomplish through discovering new technology, but at the end of my day if I could never turn on another computer and all the power in the world was blown the most important things to me are the ones I love and the true person that I am on the inside. I am not as concerned with who I am behind a keyboard because I can become whoever I want to be and make people think I am somebody I am not, but true character is more my concern who I am when no one is looking, what my family and the ones who are closest to me think of my integrity. With all that said thank you for the post. I agree that we should all be open to new experiences and helping our students to have the best learning experience that are available to them.
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